reacting to the statement: "The measure of a church discipleship effort is the number of new leaders in ministry in the church and community".
at least it's got me thinking. initially, this statement rubs me wrong. it seems to place a lot of value in the product and little in the process. theoretically, if the number of new leaders in ministry was the measure of success for your discipleship effort then it opens the door for the end justifying the means. and how do you measure those leaders? is it slapping a label on a new disciplee? like, congrats, you've arrived! you're a leader!
and what about those who will never become "leaders". i know the case can be made that we're all leaders in some capacity, but it seems like this is born out of our culture's obsession with inciting everyone into leadership (a tendency i'm afraid the Church has bought hook, line and sinker). (for a interesting perspective on this, check out joe stowell's followership)
but it still begs the question, how do you measure discipleship?
let's just say i'm in the disciple-making business (just the thought of referring to it as a business makes me queasy, but for the sake of the arguement...). how do i know that i'm being effective? how do i know if God is using me? how do i know if my "business" (ministry just sounds so much better) is successful?
and aren't we all in the disciple-making business whether we signed the paperwork or not? that's what Christ called us to in the great commission. His main command was to make disciples. the "go" was inferred...like, "as you're going". you're already going...and you've got a job to do while you're at it!
so how do we know if we're being effective at our job ("calling" sounds better in my conservative brain)?
won't the ultimate job review come at the end of this life when we hope to hear our Savior say, well done good and faithful servant?
so maybe a better question is, how do i make disciples?
and i totally get it that it's got to be God who causes the growth. we might plant the see, water, etc...but it is God who causes it to actually grow and flourish (1 Cor. 3:6).
maybe behind the labels and programs is a better understanding of what Christ meant. which leads to the more foundational question:
what is a disciple?
someone who looks, lives, acts, thinks, talks, breathes like Jesus.
oh man. ok, so maybe my "disciple effort" in the church shouldn't be focused on building people towards a position, but pushing them to the person of Christ.
still, how do you measure the effort?
thots?
Thursday, May 21, 2009
Tuesday, May 19, 2009
God is good.
so saturday night was our first trip to the ER with Jolie. anyone who knows my little red-head knows that she can't sit still for more than 3 seconds, so that afternoon we could tell something wasn't right. she was so lethargic and wanted to lay her head down and fall asleep. we were at a friends house that evening for dinner and just kept an eye on her, but by the time we got home we could tell she wasn't feeling any better and she was starting to feel very warm. temp said 102.5! woah!
she's never been sick before (other than a little runny nose a few months ago), so this was a shocker. we had the docter paged, who immediately told us to just take her to the ER because it had to be some kind of infection and it couldn't wait another day.
all of a sudden the emotions were running high and carissa and i had to fight back the panic.
while carissa was on the phone with her mom, i just sat there in the dim light of Jolie's room holding my baby girl. i felt helpless. her little body had some kind of infection that she couldn't fight off...and there was nothing i could do to help her. i remember asking the Lord to just let me take the pain and infection...i would gladly deal with it so my little girl didn't have to.
there was just so much that i can't express in words that i felt then.
i'm her dad. i'm her protector. and i couldn't do a thing...
but in that moment...this dad had a Father to turn to.
what comfort to know that i have a Heavenly Father who is in absolute control. He is a GOOD God. and He cares for me...and for my little girl. praise God! He is good...all the time! All the time...
so we were off to the doctor. but before we left, carissa held her and we prayed to our Heavenly Father who cares. He gives peace in the panic.
it ended up being an ear infection. and after the antibiotics she's on the mend and getting into everything again. thank You, Lord! and there will be more days of sickness ahead. we know. but this was a first for the hoenshell home...and it will always be another mile marker of the goodness of our God. we can trust in Him!
God is good, all the time. All the time, God is good.
she's never been sick before (other than a little runny nose a few months ago), so this was a shocker. we had the docter paged, who immediately told us to just take her to the ER because it had to be some kind of infection and it couldn't wait another day.
all of a sudden the emotions were running high and carissa and i had to fight back the panic.
while carissa was on the phone with her mom, i just sat there in the dim light of Jolie's room holding my baby girl. i felt helpless. her little body had some kind of infection that she couldn't fight off...and there was nothing i could do to help her. i remember asking the Lord to just let me take the pain and infection...i would gladly deal with it so my little girl didn't have to.
there was just so much that i can't express in words that i felt then.
i'm her dad. i'm her protector. and i couldn't do a thing...
but in that moment...this dad had a Father to turn to.
what comfort to know that i have a Heavenly Father who is in absolute control. He is a GOOD God. and He cares for me...and for my little girl. praise God! He is good...all the time! All the time...
so we were off to the doctor. but before we left, carissa held her and we prayed to our Heavenly Father who cares. He gives peace in the panic.
it ended up being an ear infection. and after the antibiotics she's on the mend and getting into everything again. thank You, Lord! and there will be more days of sickness ahead. we know. but this was a first for the hoenshell home...and it will always be another mile marker of the goodness of our God. we can trust in Him!
God is good, all the time. All the time, God is good.
Thursday, May 7, 2009
Different
looking forward to preaching this sunday.
this has been one of those passages that's really challenged me. we're talking about the fruit of the spirit, and this week we're focusing on joy & peace. 2 things that are definitely gifts from God. but i've been realizing how often i miss out on these gifts because i respond to the difficulties and challenges in life like the rest of the world does.
but God's people are called to live differently. even if we face trials and tough circumstances we can have true joy because of Christ! He is in control and is a good God. so often we just get frustrated and angry at our circumstances or people in our lives and take it out on them. instead of exhibiting and sharing the joy and peace that comes from God we end up complaining and arguing...just like the rest of the world!
we're called to live differently so people will see the difference in our lives = CHRIST! but when we respond to the difficulties of life like everyone else we miss an opportunity to let our lives speak the wonderful difference that Jesus makes!
i'm ashamed at how often my response to something i don't like or just my attitude about it is so self-centered.
Father, help me die to myself today and put others first. Give me a self-sacrificing love for You that motivates me to respond differently when things don't go my way. Remind me of the joy i have IN YOU and the peace i have WITH YOU..the peace that will guard my heart and mind in Christ Jesus (Phil 4:4-9).
this has been one of those passages that's really challenged me. we're talking about the fruit of the spirit, and this week we're focusing on joy & peace. 2 things that are definitely gifts from God. but i've been realizing how often i miss out on these gifts because i respond to the difficulties and challenges in life like the rest of the world does.
but God's people are called to live differently. even if we face trials and tough circumstances we can have true joy because of Christ! He is in control and is a good God. so often we just get frustrated and angry at our circumstances or people in our lives and take it out on them. instead of exhibiting and sharing the joy and peace that comes from God we end up complaining and arguing...just like the rest of the world!
we're called to live differently so people will see the difference in our lives = CHRIST! but when we respond to the difficulties of life like everyone else we miss an opportunity to let our lives speak the wonderful difference that Jesus makes!
i'm ashamed at how often my response to something i don't like or just my attitude about it is so self-centered.
Father, help me die to myself today and put others first. Give me a self-sacrificing love for You that motivates me to respond differently when things don't go my way. Remind me of the joy i have IN YOU and the peace i have WITH YOU..the peace that will guard my heart and mind in Christ Jesus (Phil 4:4-9).
Tuesday, April 21, 2009
in addition...
just another thought to add to the discipleship discussion...
i've found doug fields' "habits" to be helpful in holistic discipleship:
Hang-time with God
Accountability
Bible Memorization
Involving yourself in the Church
Tithing, Giving, Service for God
Studying Scripture
i've found doug fields' "habits" to be helpful in holistic discipleship:
Hang-time with God
Accountability
Bible Memorization
Involving yourself in the Church
Tithing, Giving, Service for God
Studying Scripture
interview on discipleship
responded to a friend for an email interview on the topic of discipleship. thought these thoughts might be helpful.
1. what is a disciple?
easy answer is someone who is growing in their faith to become more like Jesus Christ. a disciple is a follower. i just heard dr. joe stowell, who used to be the president at moody, talking about the obsession in our culture to be developing leaders and there's all these workshops, books and conferences on leadership...but what we really need is to be developing followers of Christ...what he called, "followership". i like that! :)
2. what should a mature disciple look like?
i like what ephesians 4:12-14 talks about, that we are growing in unity and knowledge of the Son of God. a mature disciple has spent time with the One he is trying to emmulate so that he knows who He is, what He has done and what He is doing. and you spend time with Him in His Word!
also look at philippians 2:12 & 13. we are to "work out our salvation". that's the process of progressive sanctification. we are IN THE PROCESS OF GROWING TO BECOME LIKE JESUS! those 2 verses are cool because it says that we are to "work out" while God "works in" us. it's God's work of molding you to become like Christ. that's what romans 8:28 & 29 is all about. God is causing ALL things to work together for our good...and verse 29 says that our good is to "be comformed to the image of His Son".
i heard it said like this:
the Spirit of God uses the Word of God to change the Man of God into the Image of God.
3. What process(es) do you have in place for building persons into mature disciples?
let me answer it by going back to the ephesians 4 passage. verses 11 and 12 say that it's the job of the pastors/shepherds to be equipping the saints for the work of the ministry and building up the body into maturity.
our church does that by programming wholistically. we want everyone in our body to be IN PROCESS.
the process for becoming a mature disciple is one who is Worshiping Christ, Walking with Christ and Working for Christ!
we want everyone to worship together on sunday mornings. then we want everyone involved in our flock ministry so that they can experience fellowship and discipleship (growing in the knowledge of the Word and accountability). then we want everyone plugged into some kind of ministry and always reaching out in evangelism. those are our 5 purposes of the church: worship, fellowship, discipleship, ministry and evangelism.
now, just because they're coming to one or all of those programs does NOT mean that they truly are worshiping, serving, etc...but that's the programed process we have in place to help FACILITATE discipleship.
but discipleship really happens one on one. life on life.
and we believe we have structured the programs of our church to best facilitate life on life for as many people as we can!
does that make sense?
for me personally, i meet with many of the guys in high school and at wabash. we'll meet to talk about life. and we'll always go to the Word of God to find answers and accountability for how we're supposed to live. really, i'm just meeting them along the road that they're traveling on (to become more like Christ) and i'm helping them along by showing them the truth of the Word and how it applies to their lives specifically. i almost always show them the process that God has designed for learning to "walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called" (eph. 4:1)...and that process is clearly stated in eph. 4:22-24. you "put off" the old self...be renewed in your mind...and "put on" the new self created to be like God. that's what we call the "put off/put on" principle.
i also am busy teaching the Word in youth group and in student leaders. which is basically the same thing...it's just not one-on-one and specific.
hope that answers the question.
4. what are your joys in discipleship?
i love watching young men fall in love with the Word of God. it's a joy for me to see them develop a hunger for God's Word and a desire to live it out. and i love hearing of young men who desire to serve the Lord for the rest of their lives!
and i like hangin' out at coffee shops! :)
5. what are your frustrations in discipleship?
guys that keep falling and eventually just kind of give up on the process. they miss out on the truth that if they are children of God then they are "dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus" (romans 6:11). i hate seeing an initial desire to change...but not a desire to dig into the word and persevere in doing good.
6. what advice would you give me in the area of discipling others?
read galatians 6:1-2. stay accountable yourself (ecclesiastes 4:9-12) and help a sister carry her burdens.
ephesians 4:15 - speak the truth in love.
phil 2:13 - remember that it's God work!
7. what do you think is the best example Jesus gives us in being a disciple?
a couple examples He gave...
1. a child - matthew 18:3,4...child like faith...they simply trust
2. the wise builder - matthew 7:24-27...he listens and obeys
His own example...
He grew (luke 2:52)...and His joy was obeying the Father (john 4:34)...and He gave us the ultimate example of servanthood and obedience (phil 2:3-11)
8. The book we are reading on discipleship says that we as christians are too fast and too programmed. What do you think about that statement in regards to discipleship?
i would tend to agree.
often in our culture we want what i would call "microwave christianity". where i can just pop in the microwave for 30 seconds and have it ready to enjoy. i want to just read God's Word once, have it change me and be done with the process of sanctification.
but growing and working out your salvation is a life long process simply because when Christ saved us from our sins, He saved us from the penalty of sin...and we are free from the power of sin...but until He comes again to take us home to be with Him for eternity, we still live in the presence of sin.
the most common analogy in Scripture for the Christian life is...the walk. it's not a sprint. it's a marathon...and we're called over and over again to walk in love, walk worthy, walk in God, walk in light...etc.
so we need to persevere and just keep walking!
1. what is a disciple?
easy answer is someone who is growing in their faith to become more like Jesus Christ. a disciple is a follower. i just heard dr. joe stowell, who used to be the president at moody, talking about the obsession in our culture to be developing leaders and there's all these workshops, books and conferences on leadership...but what we really need is to be developing followers of Christ...what he called, "followership". i like that! :)
2. what should a mature disciple look like?
i like what ephesians 4:12-14 talks about, that we are growing in unity and knowledge of the Son of God. a mature disciple has spent time with the One he is trying to emmulate so that he knows who He is, what He has done and what He is doing. and you spend time with Him in His Word!
also look at philippians 2:12 & 13. we are to "work out our salvation". that's the process of progressive sanctification. we are IN THE PROCESS OF GROWING TO BECOME LIKE JESUS! those 2 verses are cool because it says that we are to "work out" while God "works in" us. it's God's work of molding you to become like Christ. that's what romans 8:28 & 29 is all about. God is causing ALL things to work together for our good...and verse 29 says that our good is to "be comformed to the image of His Son".
i heard it said like this:
the Spirit of God uses the Word of God to change the Man of God into the Image of God.
3. What process(es) do you have in place for building persons into mature disciples?
let me answer it by going back to the ephesians 4 passage. verses 11 and 12 say that it's the job of the pastors/shepherds to be equipping the saints for the work of the ministry and building up the body into maturity.
our church does that by programming wholistically. we want everyone in our body to be IN PROCESS.
the process for becoming a mature disciple is one who is Worshiping Christ, Walking with Christ and Working for Christ!
we want everyone to worship together on sunday mornings. then we want everyone involved in our flock ministry so that they can experience fellowship and discipleship (growing in the knowledge of the Word and accountability). then we want everyone plugged into some kind of ministry and always reaching out in evangelism. those are our 5 purposes of the church: worship, fellowship, discipleship, ministry and evangelism.
now, just because they're coming to one or all of those programs does NOT mean that they truly are worshiping, serving, etc...but that's the programed process we have in place to help FACILITATE discipleship.
but discipleship really happens one on one. life on life.
and we believe we have structured the programs of our church to best facilitate life on life for as many people as we can!
does that make sense?
for me personally, i meet with many of the guys in high school and at wabash. we'll meet to talk about life. and we'll always go to the Word of God to find answers and accountability for how we're supposed to live. really, i'm just meeting them along the road that they're traveling on (to become more like Christ) and i'm helping them along by showing them the truth of the Word and how it applies to their lives specifically. i almost always show them the process that God has designed for learning to "walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called" (eph. 4:1)...and that process is clearly stated in eph. 4:22-24. you "put off" the old self...be renewed in your mind...and "put on" the new self created to be like God. that's what we call the "put off/put on" principle.
i also am busy teaching the Word in youth group and in student leaders. which is basically the same thing...it's just not one-on-one and specific.
hope that answers the question.
4. what are your joys in discipleship?
i love watching young men fall in love with the Word of God. it's a joy for me to see them develop a hunger for God's Word and a desire to live it out. and i love hearing of young men who desire to serve the Lord for the rest of their lives!
and i like hangin' out at coffee shops! :)
5. what are your frustrations in discipleship?
guys that keep falling and eventually just kind of give up on the process. they miss out on the truth that if they are children of God then they are "dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus" (romans 6:11). i hate seeing an initial desire to change...but not a desire to dig into the word and persevere in doing good.
6. what advice would you give me in the area of discipling others?
read galatians 6:1-2. stay accountable yourself (ecclesiastes 4:9-12) and help a sister carry her burdens.
ephesians 4:15 - speak the truth in love.
phil 2:13 - remember that it's God work!
7. what do you think is the best example Jesus gives us in being a disciple?
a couple examples He gave...
1. a child - matthew 18:3,4...child like faith...they simply trust
2. the wise builder - matthew 7:24-27...he listens and obeys
His own example...
He grew (luke 2:52)...and His joy was obeying the Father (john 4:34)...and He gave us the ultimate example of servanthood and obedience (phil 2:3-11)
8. The book we are reading on discipleship says that we as christians are too fast and too programmed. What do you think about that statement in regards to discipleship?
i would tend to agree.
often in our culture we want what i would call "microwave christianity". where i can just pop in the microwave for 30 seconds and have it ready to enjoy. i want to just read God's Word once, have it change me and be done with the process of sanctification.
but growing and working out your salvation is a life long process simply because when Christ saved us from our sins, He saved us from the penalty of sin...and we are free from the power of sin...but until He comes again to take us home to be with Him for eternity, we still live in the presence of sin.
the most common analogy in Scripture for the Christian life is...the walk. it's not a sprint. it's a marathon...and we're called over and over again to walk in love, walk worthy, walk in God, walk in light...etc.
so we need to persevere and just keep walking!
Tuesday, April 14, 2009
another reminder
post a new mile marker of God's amazing grace...we had 871 in attendance on Easter sunday and 9 indicated decisions for salvation!! praise Jesus! it was fun to look out into a sea of faces and see many that i didn't recognize at all!
it is good to recount the works of God.
it reminds us of His sovereignty and His goodness in our lives. remembering helps us to trust for the future. God has been good. God is good. God will always be good!
and He gets all the glory!!
it is good to recount the works of God.
it reminds us of His sovereignty and His goodness in our lives. remembering helps us to trust for the future. God has been good. God is good. God will always be good!
and He gets all the glory!!
Friday, April 10, 2009
conference left-overs
yet again i've been convicted of my lack of faithfulness to the blogging realm. pastor terry appealed to me last weekend about the importance of journaling your experiences and thoughts @ a conference we held at our church.
we put on a conference for our college men called 'direction09'. it was designed to equip students to Biblically discern God's will for their lives. pastor terry spoke in the last main session on "following direction", and he used the example of the journal that he has kept for the past 10+ years. every time he has the opportunity to go back and read the journal entries he sees and remembers the amazing things that God has done. and it gave me a greater appreciation for the vital role that journaling plays in understanding how God's plan is unfolding in my life!
so here i am again.
my own little journaling book is a great place for my personal prayers to the Lord, but throwing out thoughts and experiences into the great expanse of the blogosphere may prove to be encouraging, insightful, and hopefully challenging to someone in need of a reminder of God's faithfulness in all circumstances. that no matter what we face we know God will be faithful to complete the work He has started in us (phil 1:6).
but God's will can be so tough to understand, can't it?!
i was challenged through james petty's book, "step by step", which deals with the theology of God's will. God has A plan for me. He does not have a plan B or plan C and so forth...because the first theological meaning of "the will of God" is just that: His sovereign plan (example found in Eph. 1:5 & James 4:15). and i can't mess that up!! He's not surprised by sin. He knows we will make mistakes. He's not caught off guard, like "woah! didn't see that one coming...guess i'll have to go with plan b..." NO! He has a sovereign plan that no one can mess up! which of course means that we CANNOT comprehend God's plan. because, for example, it includes both free will and sovereignty. good luck trying to understand that!
but it's encouraging because it means that i don't HAVE to understand His sovereign plan.
the other theological meaning to "the will of God", however, is what He has commanded. His commands! the easiest place to look for that is in 1 Thess. 4:1-3. His will/command is = my sanctification! becoming like Jesus!! and 2 Peter 1:3 says that He has given me EVERYTHING I need in order to live my life in a way that pleases Him! those commands are all over Scripture!
so in fact, every time i open up God's Word i'm seeing His will...as His sovereign plan unfolds and as He gives me specific commands in order for me to obey and glorify him with my life!
some things to muse on. and probably some great conversation starters.
i needed this conference as much as our college guys!
we put on a conference for our college men called 'direction09'. it was designed to equip students to Biblically discern God's will for their lives. pastor terry spoke in the last main session on "following direction", and he used the example of the journal that he has kept for the past 10+ years. every time he has the opportunity to go back and read the journal entries he sees and remembers the amazing things that God has done. and it gave me a greater appreciation for the vital role that journaling plays in understanding how God's plan is unfolding in my life!
so here i am again.
my own little journaling book is a great place for my personal prayers to the Lord, but throwing out thoughts and experiences into the great expanse of the blogosphere may prove to be encouraging, insightful, and hopefully challenging to someone in need of a reminder of God's faithfulness in all circumstances. that no matter what we face we know God will be faithful to complete the work He has started in us (phil 1:6).
but God's will can be so tough to understand, can't it?!
i was challenged through james petty's book, "step by step", which deals with the theology of God's will. God has A plan for me. He does not have a plan B or plan C and so forth...because the first theological meaning of "the will of God" is just that: His sovereign plan (example found in Eph. 1:5 & James 4:15). and i can't mess that up!! He's not surprised by sin. He knows we will make mistakes. He's not caught off guard, like "woah! didn't see that one coming...guess i'll have to go with plan b..." NO! He has a sovereign plan that no one can mess up! which of course means that we CANNOT comprehend God's plan. because, for example, it includes both free will and sovereignty. good luck trying to understand that!
but it's encouraging because it means that i don't HAVE to understand His sovereign plan.
the other theological meaning to "the will of God", however, is what He has commanded. His commands! the easiest place to look for that is in 1 Thess. 4:1-3. His will/command is = my sanctification! becoming like Jesus!! and 2 Peter 1:3 says that He has given me EVERYTHING I need in order to live my life in a way that pleases Him! those commands are all over Scripture!
so in fact, every time i open up God's Word i'm seeing His will...as His sovereign plan unfolds and as He gives me specific commands in order for me to obey and glorify him with my life!
some things to muse on. and probably some great conversation starters.
i needed this conference as much as our college guys!
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